Old Skool vs Nascar's Current System

[Phillip Stocks]

Hi guys,

There has been some discussion about how to proceed next year with HDSR.  Some of us have expressed an interest to go back to pre-chase NASCAR System that made NASCAR so popular among the hard core racing fan.

The biggest reason NASCAR went to a chase format was to appeal to a broader range of racing fans, which does not really apply to a Sim Racer.  I think this has back-fired on NASCAR looking at their attendance levels.

The discussions so far have included:

No Chase Format or original Chase Format
Old Points System
Lucky Dog's - Yes or No
Wave-Arounds - Yes or No
12 Race Seasons - Our 12 Pack Series being the main focus and providing 3 opportunities for a Champion & keeping a Year Long Champion based on consistency.

We are opening the floor for discussion and ideas with this thread....

Please let us know your thoughts....

Thanks

HDSR Administration

 

[Greg Gerk]

I like the format, it brings other players into the mix and will hopefully keep the interest up. Attendance has been down for years in nascar, has nothing to do with the chase format. Nascar giving teams special attention and cookie cutter tracks, cost to race you know what they say, its not how fast you want to go, but how much money do you want to spend, along with the economy - ticket pricing, hotels, gas, souveniers etc.... is what is hurting Nascar. I feel if you were good all season, you should be good in the chase. We cant start catering the rules for individuals and wanting to change physics this late into the chase. We have seen some guys starting to figure things out, they should not be punished but, rewarded with a chance to win the championship. Dont tell me nascar was interesting when Gordon, Earnhardt or whoever had a 200 - 300 point lead over second, if you do think that was interesting your lying to yourself. Of course, those were some of the guys nascar catered to werent they, hmmm. Any way those are my thoughts.

[joel.brown]

Keep the current format.

As an alternative:
4 mini seasons, no overall champion.
For years I used to do a 11 or 12 race  mini season with a Spring, Summer, Fall, and Winter Championship.  We would also let everyone drop a race or two.  Meaning you take the best 10 out of 12 so you could miss a race and not hurt you, or have a bad unprepared night and not hurt you.  It's hard to balance life and online racing with an open setup year long season.  Even if you make just enough races to make the Chase, chances are you haven't put in the time to build setups for every track that are championship caliber - yet another reason for fixed racing but that's not the discussion here.

But you may have enough time to put in for a couple months at some point in the year to make a serious challenge for a mini season.  Especially if you can miss a race or two because the wife has other plans for ya'.

[Phillip Stocks]

I feel that I have to comment on some of Greg's post. 

When you say NASCAR was less interesting, that comment is from a fan perspective not a Sim Racer.  We do not have fans to cater too.  The question is who is a more deserving or respected champion.  One that out-performs in 5 races with our format this year or one that out-performs in 36 or 12 race Season.  We have to note that out-performs in 5 races is really 4 and Crap Shoot at Talladega.  Which do you respect more? 

I understand the keeping the attendance-up issue, but would we achieve same thing with 3-4 short seasons?  After all, that is kinda what we have now.  (26 race Season - 5 Race Season & another 5 Race Season to decide year long champion.  It just does not make sense from my perspective to continue to follow NASCAR Format when their focus is on fan attendance and ours is on Sim racer attendance.  I would prefer the no-chase system in real NASCAR and I do not need to lie to myself about this.  It is not that important to me,anymore!

As for the comment about physics change to cater to an individual in this post?  Many of the people in the SCE community have complained of the loose-in problem this year, but I agree, the timing of a possible update is less than desirable for some.  It turns -out that the problem is actually with the Aero and that the cambers do not need adjusting to fix this issue.  Joel has known, for some time, that the aero was off, but life events prevented the update from coming sooner.

I give up... There is no making everyone happy and I should not have to defend the need for an update.

I am sorry I brought this topic up...   

I am looking for someone to take  the responsibility of providing a Pro/Elite Series (Open Setup-Cup Competition)in 2015.  Let me know if you are interested and I will attempt to provide the needed server, etc., as long as I can justify the server box cost.

PS. Greg, I am very sorry if this seems like this is all about your comments.  I hope you know in your gut, it is not.  I have been hanging on by a thread with Sim racing and HDSR for many reasons.  Mostly my time constraints, physical issues and my fun-factor with SCE right now being the issues.

Phillip 

[Greg Gerk]

Should have stated it better. I was trying to compare the fan interest in a points standings that has the leader up by 200 points to if we were running that point system. I believe the SIM racers would enjoy having a chance to compete from the fun factor of a chase format compared to not having a chance in the old standard point system. It was my opinion, nothing more.

[Marc Cohn]

I'd say keep lucky dogs, wave arounds, and do the 12 race championship system with a season-long championship as well if that system is to be changed. However, I really like the challenge of the current Chase system the most - as a fan and driver it is absolutely nerve-wracking and this intensity adds a lot to the excitement in my opinion. The most exciting Chase prior to this year's format change for me was 2011 - the race at Homestead was a battle for the ages and almost as if not just as exciting as the 1992 Hooters 500 as far as season finales go.

[76_Jason Lance]

I'd just like to see a team points system in place, and maybe manufacturer.

[Phillip Stocks]

Unfortunately, with our current attendance levels, we would have to limit it to 2 car teams for Team Points to make sense.  Right now, I think your team is the only official team in place.  Most of the guys are just running as individuals for the most part because of the field sizes.

I do like the idea of team points and if we had 18-20 drivers showing-up consistently, I think we could justify team points.  However, now that I really think about it, I have to admit there are things I like with the lack of focus on teams this year.  There is pros and cons to this issue.     

[Phillip Stocks]

I apologize for my PMS'ing outburst here, especially to Greg, a good friend.  I have some real decisions to make about the future of this hobby, for me,  that I have enjoyed for so long. 

I am seriously interested in anyone that has an interest in running a League to provide the Pro/Elite venue for SCE.  Please PM me to express your interest.  I am just putting some feelers out there to give me the option to shut-down or make major changes to HDSR.   I may get to off-season and with some time-off feel completely different, but right now I am questioning HDSR Pro-Cup continuing into 2015.  I think SCE needs an Open-Set-Cup-Top Series for the hardcore racers like us and will do my best to preserve the Series.

Phillip   

[76_Jason Lance]

Every league I've raced in there have only been 15 or less guys racing in. With so many competing sims and mods we're doing good. Maybe think of doing a joint league? I've seen that improve attendance.

[Phillip Stocks]

We actually are aligned with another League and had 25 car fields earlier in the year.  The drivers from the other League slowly stopped racing with us due to their preference to fixed setup racing.  There just does not seem to be enough drivers interested in the open-setup for larger fields.

[Phillip Stocks]

Another point that I should raise in this discussion is the waved attendance requirement this year.  If we maintained our attendance requirement rule, our Chase eligible contenders in 2014 would be:

Mike Hebb
Tom McKeever
Greg Gerk                                         vs                          16 Drivers in our current Chase 1
Warren Pead
Phillip Stocks
Mike Koon

I bring this up because the attendance requirement would be 21 of 26 regular season races normally, to be chase eligible, and some drivers cannot meet this requirement due to other commitments (jobs , etc.)

We should consider this requirement in this discussion because this would probably drastically change expected attendance during our chase races.

Also, we should take note that even with the current system and 16 drivers eligible for chase, we are averaging 11-12 drivers per race.  This is the same numbers or maybe a little less than attendance achieved with older chase systems or no chase systems run in the past.

Just throwing this out there for consideration....

[Phillip Stocks]

I am working through my issues and already feel better to some degree.  I have a lot on my plate right now and it is not the time to be making decisions about future plans for HDSR.  I am sure that when things calm down in my personal life, the fun factor for Sim Racing will return. 

HDSR will continue to provide the open-set venue for SCE, so ignore me on that stuff right now.  LOL  In fact, I may put together a Fun Series for Winter Season, if time permits.  I am nearing the end of 3.5 year project that has me stressed-out.  I should be done in next month or so, then I think things will be much better for me.

I appreciate your understanding!

Phillip

[Phillip Stocks]

I am looking at some major changes for next year in the season format, so please let us know your thoughts about 12 race system vs. Chase format. 


Thanks